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User blog:SPARTAN 119/Henry V vs Jan Zizka
Henry V, the English King who defeated cut down French knights at Agincourt through the use of the deadly British longbow VS Jan Zizka, the Hussite rebel who perfected the use of gunpowder weapons and wagon forts, who was never defeated in battle. WHO IS DEADLIEST!? =Combatants= Henry V Henry V (16 September 1386/1387 – 31 August 1422) was King of England from 1413 until his death at the age of either 34 or 35 in 1422. He was the second English monarch who came from the House of Lancaster. After military experience fighting the Welsh during the revolt of Owain Glyndŵr, and against the powerful aristocratic Percys of Northumberland at the Battle of Shrewsbury, Henry came into political conflict with his father, whose health was increasingly precarious from 1405 onward. After his father's death in 1413, Henry assumed control of the country and embarked on war with France in the ongoing Hundred Years' War (1337–1453) between the two nations. His military successes culminated in his famous victory at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) and saw him come close to conquering France. After months of negotiation with Charles VI of France, the Treaty of Troyes (1420) recognized Henry V as regent and heir-apparent to the French throne, and he was subsequently married to Charles's daughter, Catherine of Valois (1401–37). Following Henry V's sudden and unexpected death in France two years later, he was succeeded by his infant son, who reigned as Henry VI (1422–61, 1470–71). (Source: Wikipedia) Jan Zizka Jan Zizka was the leader of the Hussite Rebels during their revolt against the Catholic Church. The Hussites were a religious group founded by Jan Hus, who opposed many practices of the Catholic church, including indulgences. When Hus was burned at the stake for heresy, the Hussites rose in rebellion against the Catholics, who mustered armies in a Crusade in response. Before the revolt, Zizka was the son of a gentry family in a small village in Bohemia. Zizka was attached to the Bohemian royal court since his youth, and later became the chamberlain to Queen Sophia. Zizka also fought at the Battle of Grunwald during the war between the Polish and Lithuanians and the Teutonic Knights. After Jan Hus was executed in 1415, his followers rose in revolt. Zizka quickly rose to prominence as a masterful tactician, using knowledge of European cavalry warfare to devise tactics to defeat armored knights. Zizka's revolutionary tactic used crossbowmen, hand cannoneers, and small cannon or houfnice mounted within the armored wagons to defeat charging cavalry. Zizka would place these wagons into a circular "wagon fort", and fire guns and crossbows out of gun ports in the wagons at the charging cavalry. The swarm of fire would kill or wound both the attacking knights and their horses. The Hussite infantry and cavalry would then charge out from behind the wagons and attack the disorganized, often unhorsed and wounded survivors. Zizka himself would often lead the charge out from behind the wagons, proving to be a skilled personal combatant with his favored weapon, a flanged mace. During the revolt, Zizka's mastery of tactics and use of gunpowder weapons allowed him to defeat armies of better-armed knights at such battles of Vitkov Hill. During the Battle of Kutna Hora in 1421, Zizka used his wagon fort tactics, as well as the first recorded use of field artillery, to defeat an army of Crusaders from Hungary and the Holy Roman Empire. During the later parts of the Hussite Wars, the Hussites became divided between the more radical Taborites and less radical Utraquist factions. Zizka led the Taborites and defeated the Utraquists, reunifying the Hussites. In 1424, Zizka led an invasion of Hungary. While Zizka himself never lost a battle where he was personally in command, in the end, the Hungarian's numerical superiority forced the Hussites to retreat. Shortly afterwards, Zizka died of the bubonic plague in 1424, however, the Hussite Wars continued with until 1435, when the Catholics and the more moderate Hussite leaders reached a compromise which allowed the Hussites to retain some of their doctrine, as well as control of Bohemia. Zizka remains a national hero of the Czech Republic, and is one of only a handful of commanders in all of history who never lost a battle in their entire military career, alongside such figures as Alexander the Great. A statue of Zizka was erected on Vitkov Hill in Prague, the site of one of his victories. =Weapons= Swords Longsword (Both) The term "longsword" refers to a longer sword than the arming sword, while having the same basic shape of the arming sword, but having a length of up to about one and a half meters, designed more for thrusting, but still capable of cutting. The sword was used from the mid 1300s to the mid 1500s. The weapon was also known as a "hand and a half", as it can be used one or two handed. The Longsword fell out of favor in military service starting around the 1520s, with the introduction of the Swiss Sabre. An ancestor of the longsword was the Roman Spatha, as well as various long, double-edged Germanic and Celtic swords. Blunt Melee Warhammer (Henry) A war hammer is a late medieval weapon of war intended for close combat action, the design of which resembles a hammer used in construction. The war hammer consists of a handle and a head. The handle may be of different lengths, the longest being roughly equivalent to the halberd, and the shortest about the same as a mace. Long war hammers were pole weapons (polearms) meant for use against riders, whereas short ones were used in closer quarters and from horseback. Later war hammers often had a spike on one side of the head, thus making it a more versatile weapon. The user could also use the back as a pick axe type weapon. For the purposes of this match, Henry will have a spiked warhammer with a handle about a 1.5 feet long. Flanged Mace (Jan) The medieval mace consisted of a steel handle with a steel head, often with either flanges to focus the impact of the blow or metal spikes to cause sharp trauma and pierce armor. Jan Zizka was believed to have favored a flanged mace with a handle of about 1.5 feet long. Maces were often used in combat with armored opponents, such as knights, as the mace was capable of delivering blunt force that broke the bones and caused internal trauma under the armor, effectively bypassing the defenses of the armor. 119's Edge Henry V's Warhammer for its greater versatility, with the spike and the blunt hammer head. Polearms English Bill (Henry) The bill or billhook is a type of polearm based off an agricultural implement that was modified for use in combat, and was a favored weapon of the late-medieval English. The military bill has the same curved chopping blade as its agricultural counterpart, but is typified by the addition of an upward-pointing thrusting point and a spike similar to that of the halberd for pulling a man off horseback. When used in formation, the weapon allowed a group of foot soldiers to engage and defeat enemy cavalry, as well as pike formations, particularly when supported by longbows and artillery, as they were at Battle of Flodden in 1513. Halberd (Jan) The halberd was a European polearm widely used by northern European armies such as the Swiss, Germans, and Burgundians. The weapon was effective as it allowed a foot soldier to combat cavalry by using the spear head to prevent cavalry from closing in, the hook for pulling knights off horseback, and the axe head for delivering a killing blow capable of piercing armor. The weapon was, like the pike commonly used by forces of peasant conscripts or rebels, as it was cheap, yet efficient to use. The Swiss were known to be especially skilled with the halberd. With the increased adoption of firearms, use of the halberd decreased in favor of the longer pike, which worked better in "pike and shot" formations. Nonetheless, the Halberd continued to the used as a secondary weapon for close combat, and later, in the 1700s, as a mostly ceremonial weapon of non-commissioned officers. 119's Edge Slight edge to Jan's Halberd for its axe blade, with will focus he force of over a smaller area, giving it a better chance of chopping through armor. Bows Longbow (Henry) The English longbow, also known as the Welsh longbow, is a well-known bow and arrow known for its use by British forces in the Hundred Years War at battles such as Crecy and Agincourt. The longbow was generally about five to six feet long, the length allowing for greater draw strength. The bow is described by a period source, Gaston III, count of Foix in 1380 as "of yew or boxwood, seventy inches m between the points of attachment for the cord". The bow was used in warfare in England from about 1280 to 1600. The weapon saw extensive use first by Welsh rebels against the English, and later British forces in various conflicts including the invasion of Scotland and later the Hundred Years War. The Longbow saw limited use in the English Civil War, however, by then, it had been largely supplanted by the Matchlock Musket. Arbalest (Jan) The Arbalest is a European crossbow design first appearing in the 12th century. The weapon had a steel bow piece, or prod, allowing for greater strength, and thus, greater draw weights. This resulted in a powerful weapon capable of piercing plate armor, however, it took a long time to reload as a windlass or crank was often needed to pull back the string. 119's Edge Henry V's Longbow for its superior rate of fire and range. Hand Cannon (Both) The hand cannon, also known as the hand gonne, culverin, or pistalas (in Czech) is the first type of handheld firearm used in Europe and the Middle East, appearing in the late Middle Ages, sometime in the 1300s, however, the weapon was used at least a few hundred years earlier in China, the first being crude "fire lances" with a range of only a few feet, though true hand cannons similar to the European model were in use by the 1200s. The hand cannon consisted of a simple tube loaded with powder and ammunition, typically a stone or metal ball, but sometimes even pebbles takes on the ground were used. An ignition source such as a slow-burning match was applied to a touchhole to fire the weapon. Initially, hand cannons would have been fired applying the ignition source directly to the touchhole by hand, however, by the time Jan and Henry would have been alive, it is believed that a serpentine, or S-shaped lever acting as a crude match holder and trigger would have been developed, making firing the weapon slightly easier. Hand cannons often had a spike on the back of the pole or under the barrel, to either hold the weapon in the ground while reloading (pole spike), or to act as a predecessor to a bipod, holding the weapon in place on a structure such as a well (underbarrel spike). Regardless of the location of the spike, it it could also be used as an improvised melee weapon. Hand cannons were best deployed from behind pike formations or defenses, and fired at close range. The Hussite Rebels under Jan Zizka mastered the use of the hand cannon, deploying them from with partially or fully covered "war wagons", often armored with metal plates. On the other hand, there are a few records of hand cannons in English armories from the time of Henry V, but the English for the most part favored their longbows and did not widely adopt personal firearms until about a century later, when good bow-making wood started to become scarce. 119's Edge While this is the same weapon, I give the edge to Jan Zizka's innovative use of the hand cannon from with armored war wagons. Artillery Bombard (Henry) A bombard is an early cannon used in the late Middle Ages. The weapons were mostly larger weapons used in seiges, however, some smaller guns, typically less than 200mm in diameter were used as anti-personnel weapons. Henry is known to have used cannon at the seige of Harfleur, and may have used several smaller guns at Agincourt. Cannon of the time were not often mounted on wheeled carriages, but rather were placed on wooden sledges, meaning they were not particularly mobile. For the purpose of this match, Henry's guns will be smaller, anti-personnel weapons. ''Houfnice'' Cannon (Jan) The Hussites often used small cannon or houfnice (believed to be the root of the modern word "howitzer") often mounted on wheeled gun carriages or, in the case of smaller cannon, inside the war wagons on either fixed or swiveling mounts, allowing them to be fired from behind the cover of the armored wagon walls. These guns were much smaller than heavy siege cannon, typically less than 250mm in bore diameter and having a relatively short barrel, and could be loaded with stone or steel roundshot or multiple metal shot or even gravel- an early form of grapeshot or canister. Along with crossbow and hand cannon fire, these weapons proved to be devastating against the heavy cavalry and infantry used against the Hussites. 119's Edge Jan Zizka's Wagon-Mounted Cannon for their superior mobility with their mountings on gun carriages or inside wagons, as well as their position inside the wagon, which provides defense for their crews. Defenses Wooden Spikes (Henry) At Agincourt, Henry V used sharpened wooden timbers as cover for his longbowmen. The timbers were placed at a roughly 45 degree angle in groups of several timbers. These groups of timbers were regularly placed around a defensive position such as a hill, in multiple lines of defenses. Enemy horses would instinctively avoid the timbers, slowing enemy attacks and funneling them into chokepoints where they could easily be picked off by arrow fire. War Wagon (Jan) The Hussite war wagon was the weapon that allowed the mostly peasant militias of the Hussites to defeat the armored knight employed by their Catholic foes, and the ultimate testament to Jan Zizka's military genius. The Hussites employed wagons with thick, reinforced wooden walls, sometimes armored with steel plates. These walls would stop arrows and bullets, and the wagons had a folding "roof" which could be used to cover the top of the wagon from high-angle arrow fire- such as the type of used by Henry V's longbows. The wagons were armed with small cannon and swivel guns, and manned with hand cannoneers and crossbowmen who fired out of ports in the side of the wagon. Infantry with polearms kept enemy cavalry and infantry from closing while the cannons, guns, and crossbows in the wagon unleashed a hail of fire, cutting down enemy forces who attempted to close in. The gunners and archers in the wagons would often first aim for the horses of cavalrymen, in order to eliminate their mobility advantage and make them easier targets. Ones the guns and crossbows had caused severe casualties among the enemy, Hussite infantry and cavalry would charge out from behind the wagons and finish off the survivors. =X-Factors= Explanations In terms of training, Henry probably takes an edge for his royal status and all the training that money could buy. Jan, in contrast, was born to a low-level noble, and would likely have had some, but not as much military training. Jan's men were also mostly peasants, meaning they would have had less military training, than the English, who were required to practice archery by law. On the other hand, Jan was a master of military strategy, making innovative use of the firearms, field artillery, and mobile fortifications to defeat larger forces of more heavily armored foes. At the Battles of Vitkov Hill and Kutna Hora, Jan's 12,000 soldiers defeated armies of between 50,000 and 100,000 armored knights. Henry was a great tactician in his own right, but only Jan can boast to have never lost a battle. In terms of experience, Henry had considerable experience in the battles against Owain Glyndŵr, Lord Henry Percy, and against the French in the Hundred Years' War. Jan, however, led from the front in numerous battles, and won every on every one of them. In terms of armor, Henry's forces would no doubt be better armored, though only the knights and men at arms would have plate armor, the archers might have chain mail, and definitely leather and padding. Jan's peasant militias on the other hand would have likely had little or no armor, though some would have chain mail or even at least pieces of plate-most likely taken off fallen enemies, and thus not fitting as well as a suit custom made for the user. Jan himself, though, would have likely had a suit of plate armor. Zizka's forces made up for their lack of armor with field fortification of rings of wagons with reinforced wooden walls, which were equipped with folding roofs to deflect arrow fire, as well as ports for firing guns and crossbow. Some Hussite "war wagons" were plated with iron plates for even greater protections. In terms of weapons, Zizka takes a slight edge for his innovative use of early cannon and firearms. =Scenario/Order of Battle= The two armies will each be camped on a hill, and may either attack or defend depending on the situation. Both hilltop camp will be defended by each side's field fortifications and artillery (which may also be used to attack the enemy camp). Victory may be achieved by wiping out the enemy force, or by forcing them to retreat and taking their position. Henry V *5000 Longbowmen **Longbow **Longsword or Warhammer *1000 Hand Gunners **Hand Cannon **Longsword or Warhammer *4000 Foot Soldiers **Billhook **Longsword or Warhammer *2000 Cavalry **Longsword **Warhammer **Plate Armor *20 Bombards *Defensive Spikes Jan Zizka *3000 Hand Gunners **Hand Cannon **Mace or Longsword *3000 Crossbowmen **Arbalest **Mace or Longsword *4000 Foot Soldiers **Halberd **Longsword or Mace *2000 Cavalry **Mace **Longsword **Plate Armor *20 Houfnice Cannons *Defensive ring of War Wagons =Battle= Bohemia, 1418, Alternate universe where Henry V took part in the anti-Hussite crusades As morning rose on the field of battle, the silence was broken by the thunder of cannon. Henry V's bombards opened up on the ring of wagons that surrounded the to top of the hill where the Jan Zizka's men were camped. The first of the cannon ball blew through the walls of a war wagon, killing a Hussite rebel behind it, before the projectile continued, bouncing off the ground and flying lethally through the Hussite camp, cutting down here and there. Several more cannonballs flew through the camp, covering the English longbowmen and infantry who advanced forward. Jan Zizka, however, stood firm with his men, and give the order to fire the cannons mounted between the wagons. The houfnice guns opened up, firing on the English bombards, as well as the advancing English troops. The cannon balls blew through the thickest of plate armor, cutting down men and blasting the mountings of bombards to pieces. About 200 yards from the side of the hill, the English longbowmen fired, sending a storm of arrows raining down on the Hussite camp. The first arrows cut down soldiers in the middle of the wagon ring, some dying immediately, while others were simply wounded. As the volley of wood and steel rained down, a Hussite commander yelled "Incoming arrows! Cover the wagons!" The Hussites manning the war wagons raised the folding wooden "roofs" of the war wagons. Arrows and hand cannon bullets stuck themselves in the wooden roof or bounced off the iron plating on the wagons, leaving the men inside the mobile fortresses unharmed. Most of the men in the center of the wagons scrambled for cover from the falling arrows. When all the barrage had ended, a few hundred men were killed or wounded by the arrows, mostly from plunging fire hitting the men in the center of the wagon fort. From the English lines,drums and horns rang out, signalling to the English cavalry and foot men the news. Time to charge in and finish off the heretics once and for all. The armor of the English knights shone in the sun as they charged towards the Hussites with lances and swords in hand. Behind them, the infantry ran at the enemy with bills raised. At about 100 meters, Jan Zizka gave the order: "Fire!", as he pointed his trademark mace forward. Up and down the row of wagons, houfnice (artillery) and pistalas (hand cannons) spat out fire, smoke, and death in a thunderous roar. The lead knight was pierced through the chest by an cannon ball, which kept going, cutting down man and horse alike. Bullets pierced through knight's armor and into their vulnerable flesh beneath, or tore into the unprotected flanks of horses, bringing the beasts to their knees, and sending the riders falling the ground. As the enemy started to ascend the hill, their ranks were diminished, with hundreds dead, and at least as many wounded. Adding the fire of the hand held weapons were houfnice and swivel guns mounted on and around the wagons. Many of these guns were now loaded with nails, bits of chain, iron scraps from the wagon-mounted forges that supported the army, stones, and even the English's own arrows- plucked for the ground where they fell, and returned the their sends. The improvises shot cut down men left and right, like the canister shot of later generations. Within less than three minutes, the English crusaders were routed by the overwhelming firepower. As the defeated foe began to flee, the Hussite infantry and what cavalry they had charged forth, led by Jan himself, who held his mace high, ready to bring it down on any foes he faced. Hussites swords, maces, axes, flails, hammers, and polearms finished off the scattered, unhorses and wounded survivors of the arrow and gunfire, as Jan and his cavalry charges after the retreating enemy Jan and a unit of cavalry ran off after a group of English knights, led by a man in particular ornate armor covering man and horse alike. It was the king himself. "Protect the king!", one of the English knights yelled, as he charged off with lance raised, ready to make a last stand against the larger number of Hussites. The lance and sword clashed, leaving several of each several men dead on both sides. Jan, however, lead a force of about seven men after the king himself. Realizing he was surrounded and facing the leader of the foe himself, he turned the face Jan and said, "Though I may die, I may still send you to answer to the Lord, heathen!". Henry V charged at Jan Zizka, sword raised. The English king raised his blade and swung it at the Hussite general, but met only the steel shaft of his mace. Jan rode past and turned, ready to make another pass at the king. This time, his mace met Henry's chest, and send the English king flying off his horse, onto his back about six feet away from his mount. Meanwhile, the other Hussites had stopped, looking on at the duel of the two commanders. Jan Zizka charged at Henry and ready to swing is mace, but as the head of his horse was mere feet from him, Henry got you his secondary weapon, a war hammer, and jumped to the other side of Jan's horse. Henry hooked the back of the warhammer around Jan's leg and pulled him off his horse, onto his back. The king then raised his warhammer and said, "Repent before you I send the to meet thy maker". Jan, however, responded with a rapid sweep of his mace, striking Henry in the lower left leg, dropping the king to the ground. Jan then raised his mace and swung it down on the king, denting his helmet and caving in his skull. The king was dead. Jan Zizka raised his mace in the air and yelled, "Our victory is the will of God!" At the end of the battle, over 2000, English crusaders had died, while the rest of the army retreated, demoralized, and started the long march back home. WINNER: Jan Zizka Experts Opinion Jan Zizka won this battle because of his sheer tactical genius. While both men were tactical innovators who used the latest technology to win their battles, Henry simply could not compete with the man who created the forerunners to field artillery and armored vehicles in the form of his war wagons. Because of this, Jan Zizka's undefeated streak continues with his first battle of Deadliest Fiction Wiki! To see the original battle, weapons, and votes, click here. Category:Blog posts